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The poker world hates a cheater or a scammer, but over the weekend, Daniel Negreanu brought up an interesting question about where the community draws the line in regards to one issue of 'cheating' in particular.

With poker's Black Friday, the rug was pulled out from under many poker players making a living or a supplemental income playing online poker. For some of those individuals, relocating to another country was in the realm of possibilities. Many did so to continue to have access to the sites no longer available for players residing inside the borders of America.

Negreanu: 'There really is no victim here outside of the player using the VPN when he gets caught.'

Those who could not leave had a tough choice between quitting online poker, playing on unregulated sites that couldn't compete with the volume or guarantees on the now-forbidden sites, or using a VPN — a virtual private network — to break the rules and gain access to the same sites as before.

Against the rules? Yes. But is it 'cheating' or 'unethical'? These are the questions that the former long-time PokerStars ambassador brought to the fore in his tweet on Saturday that spurred quite a bit of discussion among the community.

The VPN Debate

Negreanu kicked off some discussion by comparing the use of VPNs to conceal your real location with some other technically illegal poker-playing activities, though the one on playing poker in Texas was much disputed considering its existence in a legal gray area.

It’s illegal to play poker in Texas, are those that do unethical or cheaters?

— Daniel Negreanu (@RealKidPoker)

Negreanu put out a poll to gauge players' thoughts on the matter, and the results from 15,919 respondents overwhelmingly favored the opinion that playing on a VPN from the U.S. is not considered 'cheating.'

Do you consider players using a VPN to play online poker from the US to play on sites that forbid play from the US… https://t.co/WzXvNIxIGn

— Daniel Negreanu (@RealKidPoker)

Players Chime In

Many players like Niall Farrell argued the act does not necessarily cheat other players, so long as they are playing on their own account.

@RealKidPoker As someone lucky enough to live somewhere where I’ve never had to face this issue; I couldn’t give a… https://t.co/yNnFniPUCY

— Niall Farrell (@Firaldo87poker)

Still, others provided some fodder for the other side of the argument, namely that playing on a VPN gives players who do so an unfair advantage over those who follow the rules.

@RealKidPoker The most compelling argument I've heard that it's cheating is this: Two players both from Vegas, A an… https://t.co/uGQd5c3YHq

— Chris Kruk (@KrukPoker)

Others had a problem with Negreanu's moral stance altogether, Norman Chad one of the most vocal among them:

1. When voting for Poker HOF, you say you ONLY consider the criteria; nothing more. Sounds right. 2. When Hellmuth… https://t.co/zexX5lDt4J

— Norman Chad (@NormanChad)

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What developed into a lengthy argument about ethics along with countless tangents, seemed mostly one about semantics. After all, there's no question that using a VPN to play from the U.S. on sites where it's both illegal and against the Terms of Service (TOS) to do so, is clearly against the rules and the law — whether you agree with said law or not.

Does that mean it's an unacceptable practice among poker players? It depends on who you ask.

Victimless Crime?

As Negreanu sees it, players who choose to deceive poker sites in regards to their physical location are simply assuming their own risk without affecting others.

'So are the other players in the tournament being 'cheated' by a player using a VPN? I don’t think so. Is the online operator being 'cheated' by this player? No. There really is no victim here outside of the player using the VPN when he gets caught. He pays the ultimate price. No one else is affected whatsoever.'

Important to just about everyone in the conversation, is the distinction between players who play via a VPN under their own account, and those who create a new 'burner' account when playing from the United States. The difference is illustrated by two marquee examples in Brian Hastings (who played not from his '$tinger88' account but under 'NoelHayes' when he reentered the online poker world in 2015 - detailed here and here) and Gordon Vayo (who played under his own '[email protected]' account from Florida via a VPN, detailed here).

You can read Negreanu's detailed arguments for why he doesn't see a problem with players choosing to use a VPN to play online from the U.S. here on his blog.

What Do You Think?

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GGPoker Ambassador Daniel Negreanu has made his personal views on VPNing perfectly clear in a recent podcast.

On the latest episode of The Orbit, a round-table discussion hosted by Cardplayer Lifestyle's Robbie Strazynski, Negreanu stated that he 'didn't give a crap' where players were located, as long as they were who they said they were.

The Orbit - Episode 4

Negreanu was joined on The Orbit by Run It Once Poker founder Phil Galfond, partypoker Partner Rob Yong and the former managing director of the Microgaming Poker Network (MPN) Alex Scott.

During the episode, the panel discussed the role of regulation in poker, and whether regulation is a barrier to how online poker should run.

Negreanu said that the obvious goal for online poker is for everyone to play against one another, but made some interesting comments about VPNing.

What is a VPN?

A Virtual Private Network is a tool that enables you to mask your internet protocol (IP) address, giving you online privacy and anonymity.

Many people use this to watch shows on Netflix that they are unable to in their country, but more importantly for this conversation poker players can use this in order to conceal their location.

Poker sites have repeatedly stated that the use of a VPN is against their terms of service, with 2018 World Championship of Online Poker (WCOOP) champion 'wann2play' was stripped of their title and $1.35 million in prize money due to 'multi-accounting/ghosting' and use of a VPN.

Negreanu's Views

This isn't the first time that Negreanu has spoken out on the ethics of using a VPN in order to play poker from a country where it is not allowed.

On this occasion, he referred back to his time as a PokerStars ambassador in his views on this topic, saying that he found it difficult to understand why PokerStars spent so much money and resources trying to catch people 'VPNing', or playing from countries they're not supposed to.

'I've said this [before],' Negreanu went on. 'I personally don't give a crap where you're playing from as long as it's you. It doesn't bother me.'

'I personally don't give a crap where you're playing from as long as it's you'

Negreanu posed a hypothetical where Senegal banned Apple products, and whether or not it would be up to Apple to police whether people were using an iPhone or an iPad in that country.

READ MORE:GGPoker Responds to Cheating Scandal

'I don't think it makes a lot of sense for the companies to police in these cases when the rule is stupid in the first place. It doesn't make sense to us to spend resources to enforce that [...] If that's an issue in your country, then you police it.'

The poker Hall of Famer then clarified that it's most poker companies' policy that you're not allowed to do 'any of that stuff,' but reiterated his views on it.

'Do I think it makes sense personally to spend a lot of resources trying to catch these people? I don't. I don't have a problem with it.'

What do the Sites Say About VPNs?

Here's what the Terms & Conditions of the three major poker websites - GGPoker, partypoker and PokerStars - have to say about the use of a VPN:

GGPoker

GGPoker are the only one to explicitly mention VPNs in their T&Cs. Under section 15 of GGPoker's Security & Ecology Agreement it clearly states:

'GGPoker strictly prohibits users located in prohibited jurisdictions to use VPN/PROXY, remote desktops, or any alternative methods to mask their true location.

Should we determine that users are accessing GGPoker from prohibited countries, we may restrict their use of VPN/Proxy, or suspend the account and request Proof of Presence (“POP”).'

partypoker

Best Vpn For Online Poker Games

There is no explicit mention of the term 'VPN' in the partypoker General Terms and Conditions. However, under section 2 it states:

'You may only use the Facilities if You are 18 years of age or over (or such other higher minimum legal age in Your jurisdiction) and it is legal for You to do so according to the laws that apply in Your jurisdiction.'

In section 6 of the same document it goes on to state:

'We forbid the use of all unfair practices when using the Facilities.'

Best Vpn For Online Poker No Deposit

PokerStars

How To Play Online Poker With A Vpn

There is no explicit mention of the term 'VPN' in the PokerStars End User License Agreement. However, under section 5 it states:

'The Stars Group (TSG) prohibits persons located in (including temporary visitors) or residents of certain jurisdictions (including jurisdictions where persons are required to play according to the regulations in such jurisdiction, using the appropriately designated, licensed game client) from making deposits into their Stars Accounts or engage in Real Money Games.

'Any attempt to circumvent the restrictions on play by any persons located in a Prohibited Jurisdiction, is a breach of this Agreement. An attempt at circumvention includes, but is not limited to, manipulating the information used by TSG to identify your location and providing TSG with false or misleading information regarding your location or place of residence. Any such attempt will entitle us to take such steps as we deem appropriate including, without limitation, seizing the funds in your Stars Account.'

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